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 Post subject: CNC 25 W Zero Killer
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:29 pm 
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Grand Master
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Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:45 pm
Posts: 694
Location: Saudi Arabia
CNC 25 Windoku Zero Killer

I've been in England for a week while Queen has been training in Dubai - she forgot it was Ramadan so a little disappointed by the social life.

I've been working on this all week to get the full flow as hard as the start.

I'm flying early tomorrow and will fill out solution etc. when I get back to "Niaga".

I'm hoping you'll find this very hard - it is intended to be human solvable in style.

Killer cages are non-consecutive - twin killers are Remban i.e. fully consecutive.

Note it is Windoku.

Note overlapping cages.

Andrew I hope that this is visually clearer.

Note only seven cages have totals.

Ed when doing zero killers the little un-sized doublets are very useful for locking in a solution without giving too much away.

Wellbeback has pointed out that the original had multiple solutions. I missed a combination in my analysis. Falsely eliminating this combination made the solution easier.

I have a corrected version below - now solved, but a bit easier than I wished.


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Last edited by HATMAN on Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: CNC 25 W Zero Killer
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:38 am 
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Grand Master
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Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:31 pm
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Location: California, out of London
I've got so far and am now stuck. But then something occurred to me.

By any chance does "Remban i.e. fully consecutive." mean that not only are the values in the red cages consecutive - but in order as well? I.e., (for example) [432] is allowed but [423] is not?


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 Post subject: Re: CNC 25 W Zero Killer
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:18 pm 
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Grand Master
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Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:04 pm
Posts: 1895
Location: Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada
HATMAN wrote:
Andrew I hope that this is visually clearer.
Thanks. A lot clearer.

wellbeback wrote:
By any chance does "Remban i.e. fully consecutive." mean that not only are the values in the red cages consecutive - but in order as well? I.e., (for example) [432] is allowed but [423] is not?
I haven't yet tried this puzzle; it's the next one for me to try, it certainly looks very hard.

In CNC 22W and CNC 23W the values in the "Remban i.e. fully consecutive" cages were numerically consecutive but not necessarily placed in ascending or descending order.

HATMAN wrote:
it is intended to be human solvable in style.
This suggests to me that one needs to make intuitive steps (lateral thinking) when trying to solve this puzzle.


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 Post subject: Re: CNC 25 W Zero Killer
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:26 pm 
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Grand Master
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Location: Saudi Arabia
Note I have posted a corrected and slightly easier version above.


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 Post subject: Re: CNC 25 W Zero Killer
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:23 am 
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Grand Master
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Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:04 pm
Posts: 1895
Location: Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada
HATMAN wrote:
it is intended to be human solvable in style.
I'm not sure if I found any steps which can be considered "human solvable", in the sense that it's used on this forum; the nearest I can see is my step 2a.

Well done wellbeback in working out that the original version had more than one solution.

HATMAN wrote:
slightly easier version
It's still a nice puzzle! Definitely easier to make early progress, with the extra killer cage, but I had to work hard in the later stages; maybe HATMAN or wellbeback found better ways to finish it.

Here is my walkthrough for CNC 25W:
This is a Windoku twin killer. Combinations in killer cages (some with and some without totals must use non-consecutive numbers), while the cages in HATMAN’s diagram with red borders use consecutive numbers (not necessarily in order).

The four windows are numbered W1, W2, W3 and W4; the hidden windows will give their cells, for example hidden window R159C159.

[I was stuck after 16 steps of my original attempt. When I came back to this puzzle to try it again, I checked the forum thread and found that wellbeback had told HATMAN that it had multiple solutions. HATMAN then added an extra 15(3) killer cage at R7C8.]

Prelims
a) 17(3) cage at R2C4 = {179/269/359/368}, no 4
b) 18(3) cage at R3C4 = {279/369/468}, no 1,5
c) 20(3) cage at R4C9 = {479}
d) 19(3) cage at R6C6 = {379/469}
e) 11(3) cage at R7C2 = {137/146}
f) 13(3) cage at R7C7 = {139/148/157/247}, no 6
g) 15(3) cage at R7C8 = {159/168/249/258/357}

Steps resulting from Prelims
1a. Naked triple {479} in 20(3) cage at R4C9, locked for N6
1b. 19(3) cage at R6C6 = {379/469}, 9 locked for C6 and W4
1c. 11(3) cage at R7C2 = {137/146}, 1 locked for C2 and N7

[I next analysed 17(3) cage at R2C4 and 18(3) cage at R3C4 but this proved unnecessary after step 2a …]
2. 45 rule on N2 3 innies R1C456 = 10 = {127/145/235} (cannot be {136} which clashes with 17(3) cage at R2C4), no 6,8,9
2a. R1C123 is a killer cage so cannot contain consecutive numbers and R1C789 is a red border cage which must contain three consecutive numbers -> R1C456 = {235} (only remaining combination, cannot be {127} because R1C123 cannot contain both of 8,9 since R1C789 = {345/456}, cannot be {145} because R1C123 cannot contain both of 2,3 since R1C789 = {678/789}), locked for R1 and N2
2b. 17(3) cage = {179} (only remaining combination), locked for R2
2c. Naked triple {468} in 18(3) cage at R3C4, locked for R3
2d. R1C56 cannot contain consecutive numbers = {25/35}, R1C4 = {23}
2e. R1C789 must contain three consecutive numbers = {678/789}, 7,8 locked for R1 and N3
2f. 1,4 in R1 only in R1C123, locked for N1

3. 7 in W2 only in R24C6, locked for C6 -> 19(3) cage at R6C6 = {469} (only remaining combination), locked for C6 and W4 -> R3C6 = 8, placed for W2
3a. 4 in W2 only in R2C78, locked for R2
3b. 7 in W4 only in R78C78, locked for N9

4. 7 in N9 only in 13(3) cage at R7C7 = {157/247} or 15(3) cage at R7C8 = {357} -> 13(3) cage at R7C7 = {148/157/247} (cannot be {139}, locking-out cages), no 3,9
4a. 4 of {148/247} must be in R9C7 -> no 2,8 in R9C7
4b. 15(3) cage = {159/168/357} (cannot be {249} because 4,9 only in R9C8, cannot be {258} which clashes with 13(3) cage), no 2,4
4c. 6,9 of {159/168} must be in R9C8 -> no 1,8 in R9C8
4d. 13(3) cage = {148/247} (cannot be {157} which clashes with 15(3) cage), no 5 -> R9C7 = 4, placed for hidden window R159C678
4e. Killer pair 1,7 in 13(3) cage and 15(3) cage, locked for N9
4f. Combining these cages -> R789C9 = {269/368/359}
[The first new step after the 15(3) cage has been added, replacing a different step for the 13(3) cage.]

5. R5C456 is a red border cage, max R5C6 = 5 -> max in R5C45 = 7, no 8,9 in R5C45

6. 1 in C1 only in red border cage R123C1 or in red border cage R4567C1 -> one of these red border cages must contain all of 1,2,3, locked for C1, no 2,3 in R89C1

7. 9 in W2 only in R3C78, locked for R3 and N3
7a. Naked triple {678} in R1C789, locked for R1 and N3
7b. 6 in N1 only in R2C123 -> no 5 in R2C123 (cannot contain consecutive numbers)
7c. 5 in N1 only in R3C123, locked for R3

8. R3C7 = 9 (hidden single in C7)
8a. R3C7 = 9 -> no 8 in R1C7 (killer cage R123C7 cannot contain consecutive numbers)

9. R789C9 (step 4f) = {269/368} (cannot be {359} because killer cage R123C9 cannot contain both of 1,2), no 5, 6 locked for C9 and N9
9a. Killer pair 7,8,9 in R1C9, R45C9 and R789C9, locked for C9
9b. 6 in N3 only in R1C78, locked for hidden window R159C678
9c. 6 in N6 only in R4C78, locked for R4

10. 15(3) cage at R7C8 (step 4b) = {159/357}, no 8, 5 locked for C8
10a. Killer pair 7,9 in R5C8 and 15(3) cage, locked for C8

11. 8 in hidden window R159C678 only in R1C8 + R5C7, CPE no 8 in R6C8
11a. 8 in N6 only in R56C7, locked for C7
11b. 13(3) cage at R7C7 (step 4d) = {247} (only remaining combination), 2,7 locked for C7 and W4 -> R1C7 = 6, R1C8 = 8, placed for hidden window R159C678, R1C9 = 7, placed for hidden window R159C159
11c. R1C7 = 6 -> R2C7 = 3 (no 5 in R2C7 because R123C7 cannot contain consecutive numbers), placed for W2
11d. 15(3) cage at R7C8 (step 10) = {159} (only remaining combination) -> R9C8 = 9, R78C8 = {15}, locked for C8 and W4 -> R3C8 = 2, placed for W2, R3C9 = 1, placed for R234C159, R2C8 = 4, R2C9 = 5, placed for hidden window R234C159, R6C78 = [83], R45C8 = [67], R6C9 = 2, placed for hidden window R678C159
11d. 5 in W2 only in R4C67, locked for R4
11e. 8 in N5 only in R4C45, locked for R4
11f. 2 in N7 only in R789C3, locked for C3

12. R6C9 = 2 -> killer cage R678C9 = 2{68} (cannot contain 3 because killer cage R678C9 cannot contain consecutive numbers), 6,8 locked for C9 and hidden window R678C159
12a. R9C9 = 3, placed for hidden window R159C159

13. 1 in C1 only in red border cage R123C1 = {123} or in red border cage R4567C1 = {1234} -> R123C1 = {123/789} (cannot be {234}, locking-out cages, cannot be {678} because R1C1 only contains 1,4,9), no 4,6
13a. R123C1 = {123} => R4567C1 = {4567/5678/6789} or R123C1 = {789} -> 7 in R1234567C1 (locking cages), locked for C1

14. 6 in N1 only in R2C23, locked for W1 -> R3C4 = 4, locked for W1, R3C5 = 6

15. 4 in R1 only in R1C23, locked for hidden window R159C234

16. R5C456 is a red border cage = {123/234/345/456}
16a. 4 of {345} must be in R5C5, 5 of {456} must be in R5C6 -> no 5 in R5C5

17. R45C2 is a red border cage = {23/78/89} (cannot be {56} because 5,6 only in R5C2, cannot be {67} which clashes with 11(3) cage at R7C2), no 5,6 in R5C2
17a. 8 of {89} must be in R5C2 -> no 9 in R5C2

18. R89C4 is a red border cage = {12/56/67/78/89} (cannot be {23} which clashes with R1C4), no 3 in R8C4

19. R89C5 is a red border cage = {12/23/45/78/89}
19a. 4 of {45} must be in R8C5 -> no 5 in R8C5

[Time to start using forcing chains?
With hindsight, the ones in steps 22 and 23 are the most important ones.]

20. Consider combinations for 11(3) cage at R7C2= {137/146}
11(3) cage = {137} => R45C2 = {89} => R1C2 = 4
or 11(3) cage = {146} => R1C2 = 9
-> no 4,9 in R6C2

21. Consider combinations for red border cage R123C1 (step 13) = {123/789}
R123C1 = {123} => 2 in C2 only in R45C2 = {23}
or R123C1 = {789} => R1C2 = 4, 11(3) cage at R7C2 = {137} => R45C2 = [98]
-> R45C2 = [23/32/98], no 7
21a. R123C1 = {123}
or R123C1 = {789} => R4567C1 = {1234} => R89C1 = [56] => 11(3) cage at R7C2 = {137}
-> no 3 in R7C1
21b. 3 in N7 only in R78C23, locked for W3
21c. 3 in C1 only in R34C1, locked for hidden window R234C159

22. R45C2 (step 21) = [23/32/98]
22a. Consider combinations for 11(3) cage at R7C2= {137/146}
11(3) cage = {137} => R45C2 = [98] => R2C2 = 2 (hidden single in C2)
or 11(3) cage = {146}, locked for C2
-> no 6 in R2C2
22b. R2C3 = 6 (hidden single in N1)

23. R678C3 is a red border cage = {123/234/345/789}
23a. Consider placement for 4 in C3
R1C3 = 4 => R1C2 = 9 => R123C1 = {123}, R45C2 = {23} => 3 in C3 only in R78C3 => R678C3 = {123}
or 4 in R678C3 = {234/345}
-> R678C3 = {123/234/345}, no 7,8,9
23b. R678C3 = {123/234/345}, 3 locked for C3 and N7
23c. 11(3) cage at R7C2= {146} (only remaining combination), locked for C2 and N7 => R1C2 = 9, R1C1 = 1, placed for hidden window R159C159, R1C3 = 4
23d. R45C2 (step 21) = {23} (only remaining combination), locked for C2 and N4 -> R2C2 = 8, placed for W1, R2C1 = 2, placed for hidden window R234C159, R3C1 = 3 (hidden single in C1)
23e. R678C3 = {123} (only remaining combination) -> R6C3 = 1, placed for W3, R78C3 = {23}, locked for C3 and W3

24. R5C1 = 6 (hidden single in C1)
24a. Red border cage R4567C1 = {4567} (only remaining combination), locked for C1 -> R8C1 = 9, placed for hidden window R678C159, R9C1 = 8
24b. Naked pair {57} in R39C3, locked for C3 -> R4C3 = 9, placed for W1, R4C9 = 4, R4C1 = 7, R6C2 = 5, placed for W3, R3C2 = 7, placed for W1, R2C4 = 1, R6C1 = 4, R6C5 = 7

25. Naked pair {46} in R8C26, locked for R8 -> R8C9 = 8, R8C4 = 7, R8C7 = 2, R8C3 = 3, R8C5 = 1

26. R89C4 (step 18) = {67} (only remaining combination) -> R9C4 = 6
26a. R89C5 (step 19) = {12} (only remaining combination) -> R9C5 = 2
26b. R5C4 = 5 (hidden single in C4), R5C5 = 4 -> R5C456 (step 16) = {345} (only remaining combination) -> R5C6 = 3

and the rest is naked singles, with using the windows.

Solution:
1 9 4 3 5 2 6 8 7
2 8 6 1 9 7 3 4 5
3 7 5 4 6 8 9 2 1
7 3 9 2 8 1 5 6 4
6 2 8 5 4 3 1 7 9
4 5 1 9 7 6 8 3 2
5 4 2 8 3 9 7 1 6
9 6 3 7 1 4 2 5 8
8 1 7 6 2 5 4 9 3

Rating Comment:
I'll rate my walkthrough at Hard 1.5. I used several short forcing chains.


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