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Afmob
 Post subject: Assassin 163
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:13 pm 
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This one starts really easy but after that it gets more difficult though not too much, so an easier Assassin from me this time.

Assassin 163

Image
No repeats on the diagonals!

3x3:d:k:4352:4352:4866:4866:3588:3588:3588:8199:3848:3849:3849:4352:4866:4866:3588:8199:3848:4113:5906:5906:3849:8199:4866:8199:3848:4113:4113:2587:4892:5906:2846:8199:4384:4384:2338:5667:4892:2587:5906:4135:2846:4384:4650:5667:2338:4892:2587:4135:4135:7217:2846:4650:5667:2338:2102:2102:4152:7217:8506:7217:3644:4650:4650:2102:4152:7217:5954:8506:8506:2629:3644:3644:4152:7217:5954:5954:5954:8506:8506:2629:2629:

Solution:
9 6 1 5 2 7 4 3 8
8 3 2 6 4 1 7 5 9
7 5 4 8 3 9 2 1 6
1 9 3 2 5 6 8 4 7
6 7 8 4 1 3 5 9 2
4 2 5 7 9 8 1 6 3
5 1 9 3 7 2 6 8 4
2 4 6 9 8 5 3 7 1
3 8 7 1 6 4 9 2 5

SS Score: 1.09
Estimated rating: 1.0

If requested I can post a modified version which needs more fishy moves but A164 has to be claimed first.


Last edited by Afmob on Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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udosuk
 Post subject: Re: Assassin 163
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:21 am 
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Thanks for the nice puzzle.

I wonder the way I crack it would qualify for the 1.0 rating (once again I'm no expert about these ratings):

My way to crack it:
Outies @ n78: r6c5+r9c7=18=[99]
Hidden singles: r3c6=r7c3=r8c4=9
Hidden singles: r2c9=r5c8=9
Hidden singles: r1c1=r4c2=9
Innies @ n69: r4c7=17-9=8
Innies @ n7: r8c3+r9c23=21={678}
Innies @ n8: r7c46+r9c45=12={1236|1245}
=> r9c45 can't be {35}
23/4 @ r8c4: r9c345=23-9=14 can't be [635|653]
=> r9c3 can't be 6, must be from {78}
Innies @ n4: r456c3=16 must have 7|8
=> r4569c3 form KNP {78} @ c3
=> r8c3=6
=> r4569c3=23|24 from {1234578}={3578|4578}
=> 5 @ c3,n4 locked @ r456c3
=> {12} @ c3,n1 locked @ r123c3
Innies @ n14: r16c3=6=[15|24]
=> 3 @ c3 locked @ r2345c3 (pointing r3c12)
23/4 @ r3c1 from {345678}={3758|4658}
(with 3 only possible to appear @ r45c3)
But min r45c3=16-5=11 can't be {37}
=> r45c3 can't have 7
=> r456c3=16 from {3458}=[385]

The rest is dead easy.

:alien:

[Edited - made correction on a single line]

Originally I wrote:
23/4 @ r3c1 from {345678}={3758|4658} with 3 locked @ r45c3

It was corrected to:
23/4 @ r3c1 from {345678}={3758|4658}
(with 3 only possible to appear @ r45c3)

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Last edited by udosuk on Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ronnie G
 Post subject: Re: Assassin 163
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:44 pm 
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Hello Afmob, and thanks for the puzzle. I really needed a simple(r) one this week. I'm a bit crushed with work right now, so you let me get my fix without feeling too guilty about the time I spent. :sun:

Haven't completely analyzed udosuk's WT, but first glance tells me we used very different solving paths, mine probably being more traditional. I've teased Ed before about my adherence to the "KISS" principle -- "Keep It Simple, Stupid!" (with me being Stupid). A reminder to myself to always try simpler things first. Not as flashy as some of udosuk's and manu's manipulations, but it is my preference.

At any rate, I can't take time to write a WT just now, and hope someone will post something similar to my method so I won't feel obligated.

I used standard stuff like....

Hidden Text:
killer pairs (naked & hidden) and CPE's


Thanks again! :applause:
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udosuk
 Post subject: Re: Assassin 163
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:32 pm 
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Ronnie, I hope somebody can show us a nice and clean walkthrough using only your "standard stuff" and nothing else. :|

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Afmob
 Post subject: A163 V2
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:46 pm 
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Thanks manu, for volunteering! Alright, this one also starts quite easy but it gets much harder afterwards. I used some small contradiction moves, so my walkthrough might be a bit over the top since JSudoku suggests a different (easier?) way using lots of fishy moves. Get your rods, ready! :lol:

Assassin 163 V2

Image
No repeats on the diagonals!

3x3:d:k:4352:4352:4866:4866:3588:3588:3588:8199:3848:3849:3849:4352:4866:4866:3588:8199:3848:4113:5650:5650:3849:8199:4866:8199:3848:4113:4113:5650:5650:4637:2846:8199:4384:4384:3362:3362:3108:4637:4637:4135:2846:4384:3882:3882:3362:3108:3108:4135:4135:7217:2846:3882:5428:5428:2102:2102:4152:7217:8506:7217:3644:5428:5428:2102:4152:7217:5954:8506:8506:2629:3644:3644:4152:7217:5954:5954:5954:8506:8506:2629:2629:

Solution (same as V1):
9 6 1 5 2 7 4 3 8
8 3 2 6 4 1 7 5 9
7 5 4 8 3 9 2 1 6
1 9 3 2 5 6 8 4 7
6 7 8 4 1 3 5 9 2
4 2 5 7 9 8 1 6 3
5 1 9 3 7 2 6 8 4
2 4 6 9 8 5 3 7 1
3 8 7 1 6 4 9 2 5

SS Score: 1.98
Estimated rating: 1.5 - 1.75.


Last edited by Afmob on Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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udosuk
 Post subject: Re: Assassin 163
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:43 pm 
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Thanks for a more challenging V2! :alien:

My walkthrough:
(Note: I got lazy and used the cages/diagonals automatic elimination features of JSudoku, so if you're using a vanilla solver or solving it on paper you need to do some extra work, but I assure you they're all very straight forward stuffs that I skipped. Also this same walkthrough works for V1 too, using the JSudoku features.)

Outies @ n78: r6c5+r9c7=18=[99]
Hidden singles @ c6,r7,n8: r3c6=r7c3=r8c4=9
Hidden singles @ n3: r2c9=9
Hidden singles @ d\: r1c1=9
Innies @ n69: r4c7=17-9=8
Innies @ n7: r8c3+r9c23=21={678}
Innies @ n8: r7c46+r9c45=12={1236|1245}
=> r9c45 can't be {35}
23/4 @ r8c4: r9c345=23-9=14 can't be [635|653]
=> r9c3 can't be 6, must be from {78}
=> 6 @ n7,28/5 locked @ r8c3+r9c2

Innies @ n9: r7c89=12={48|57}
=> r7c124689 form killer naked quint {12345} @ r7
=> r7c57 must be from {678}
14/3 @ r7c7: max r8c89=14-6=8 can't have 8
=> 8 @ n9 locked @ r7c89=12={48}
Now r7c12 from {1235} can't be {14}
8/3 @ r7c1: r8c1 can't be 3
28/5 @ r6c5+8/3 @ r7c1: r8c13+r9c2=28+8-9-1-2-3-5=16
But 6 @ n7 locked @ r8c3+r9c2 from {678}
=> r8c1=2, r8c3+r9c2={68}
8/3 @ r7c1: r7c12=8-2=6={15}
=> r7c46={23}, /89={34} (d/), r9c3=7
23/4 @ r8c4: r9c45=23-9-7=7={16}
=> r7c57=[76], r8c3+r9c2=[68]
10/3 @ r8c7 with r9c89 from {235} must be {235}

Innies @ n14: r16c3=6={15|24}
16/3 @ r5c4: min r56c4=16-5=11 can't have 1
17/3 @ r4c6: r45c6=17-8=9={27|36} (r9c6 from {45})
=> 1 @ n5,d\ locked @ 11/3 @ r4c4
=> 14/3 @ r7c7=[671]
=> 11/3 @ r4c4 from {123458} with 1 locked must be {128}
=> 17/3 @ r4c6=[683]
Innies @ d/: /56=14-6=8=[17]
=> 15/3 @ r1c9={258}
Hidden pair @ c6: r12c6={17}
14/4 @ r1c5: r1c57=14-1-7=6=[24]
=> 16/3 @ r2c9=[916]
Hidden single @ n9: r9c8=2
Hidden single @ n3: r3c7=2

All naked singles from here.

And some discussion about ratings:
Personally, since the most difficult technique I used is just a killer naked quint (or killer hidden triple the other way round), and it's really quite easy to spot, I can't see my walkthrough rated too much higher than my original one for V1 (used a killer naked pair). I'd say 1.25 at most, if not 1.0 (hard). :?:

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Afmob
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:36 pm 
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Great walkthrough, udosuk! :applause:

I've should have seen that Hidden Killer triple / Naked Killer quint you've used instead of falling for SudokuSolver's high rating. You're right that this technique was the hardest one you've used but I think the step you've used afterwards (unusual combined cages) is nearly as hard.

So, all in all I would rate your walkthrough 1.25 because of the Killer subset you've used.
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manu
 Post subject: Re: Assassin 163
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:13 am 
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Thank Afmob for this killer with nice cloned cells. Happy that I could contribute to its publication :lol:
My wt was similar to udosuk with a hidden killer triple.
Well, I have typed it yet ( :? ), and the second part of my work is slighltly different, so, here is !

Edit : some typos have been found by Andrew : thanks !

Walkthrough A163V2:
1) a) Outies for n78 : r6c5+r9c7=18 -> r6c5=r9c7=9
b) Hidden single for n8 : r8c4=9
Hidden single for n7 : r7c3=9
Hidden single for n2 : r3c6=9 (14(4) <> 9)
c) 1 locked for n7 at cage 8(3) -> 16(3) = {349/259}
-> Hidden triple {678} at r8c3+r9c23 locked for n7
d) Innie for n69 : r4c7=8
e) IO for n2 : r3c4=r1c3+r1c7+3 -> r3c4=(678) since min r1c3+r1c7=3
-> r1c3=(1234), r1c7=(1234) since max r1c3+r1c7=max r3c4-3 = 8-3=5
f) Innies for n14 : r1c3+r6c3=6 : r16c3 = [15/24/42]
g) Digit at r1c3 see all cells of n2 except r3c4 and r2c6.
But r1c3=(124) and r3c4=(678) -> r1c3 <> r3c4. So r2c6=r1c3=(124) (cloned cells)

2) a) Min r9c2+r8c3=6+7=13 -> max r7c4+r7c6=28-9-13=6 : r7c4, r7c6 <> 6,7,8
b) Hidden killer triple {678} locked for r7 at r7c5+r7c7+r7c89 : r7c5=(678), r7c7=(67)
c) Min r7c7 = 6 -> max r8c8+r8c9=14-6=8 : r8c89 <>8. 8 is locked for r7/n9 at r7c89
d) Innies for n9 : r7c8+r7c9=12. From step 2)c) r7c89={48} locked for r7/n9 and the rest of cage 21(4)
e) Using cage 28(5), r7c4+r7c6=28-9-13/14/15 = 4/5/6. r7c46={13/23/15}
f) 8(3) at n7 is {125} or [134/314]. We deduce that r7c12 contains at least one of {15} -> r7c46 <> {15}
-> r9c2+r8c3 <> {67} -> r9c3 <> 8. r7c46={13/23} with 3 locked for r7/n8
g) 8(3) at n7 = {125} with 5 locked at r7c12 for r7/n7
h) r9c1+r8c2={34} locked for n7 and D/
i) Combinations for cage 23(4) at n8 : {16/25}79
j) 2 is locked for n8 at r7c46 + 23(4)
* Either 2 is locked at r7c46 : r7c46={23} -> r9c2+r8c3={68} locked for n7 -> r9c3=7
* Either 2 is locked at 23(4) : 23(4)={2579} -> r9c3=7
-> the conclusion is r9c3=7

3) a) r9c2+r8c3={68} locked for n7 and the rest of 28(5)
b) Using cage 28(5), we get r7c4+r7c6=5 : {23} locked for n8/r7
c) At n8 : 23(4)={1679} -> r9c45={16} locked for r9/n8
d) r7c5=7, r7c7=6
e) {17} locked for n9 at r8c789 -> r8c89 contain at least one of {17}
->(cage 14(3) : r8c8+r8c9=8) r8c89={17} locked for r8/n9

4) a) IO for n5 : r4c5=r6c3=(245) (cloned cells)
b) Cage 11(3) at D\ : no6 -> {128/137/245}
But {137} impossible since r8c8=(17)
{245} impossible since r4c5=(245)
-> 11(3)={128} locked for D\. Clean up : r4c5<>2 ->(step 4)a)) r6c3<>2 ->(step 1)f)) r1c3<>4 ->(cloned cell) r2c6<>4
c) Cage 17(3) at n5 : {368} ({458} blocked by r4c5=(45)) -> r4c6=6, r5c6=3
d) r7c6=2, r2c6=1 ->(cloned cell) r1c3=1 ->(step 1)f)) r6c3=5 and (cloned cell) r4c5=5
e) Last combo : 16(3) (at n5) = {457} : r56c4=[47]
f) Last combo : 15(3) (at n3) is {258}, locked for D/ and n3.
g) r5c5=1, r4c4=2 r6c6=8
h) Hidden single for c6 : r1c6=7
i) 14(4) at n2 : {1247} -> r1c7=4, r1c5=2

No problem for the rest


Last edited by manu on Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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udosuk
 Post subject: Re: Assassin 163
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:04 am 
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Thanks for showing your walkthrough manu! :alien:

Afmob, thanks for your kind words. Could you show me your path to crack V1 without using any killer sets? :?:

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Afmob
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:24 pm 
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For V1 I probably used the same path as Ronnie, so some Killer subsets are definitely involved though no combo analysis between normal and Hidden Cages which I normally use for harder Killers.
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