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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 6:43 pm 
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I call these ones "Clueleast" because out of 729 cells in the grid, only 2 clues are given and still they have unique solutions. Of course several variant rules are needed (NC AK AN & FNC AK AN repectively) but they're still very neat IMHO. :ugeek:

And they also serve an important usage to me: the sets of rules in a 9x9 grid will both produce 72 solutions. You can find all of them in the solution grids here by taking each of the 9 subgrids and then rotate/reflect it to get 7 others, thus 9*(1+7)=72. :idea:

Here are the puzzle pics:

Image

Image

Here is the text format for the really lazy people: :santa:

.................................................................................
.................................................................................
.................................................................................
.................................................................................
............4.......5............................................................
.................................................................................
.................................................................................
.................................................................................
.................................................................................

.................................................................................
.................................................................................
.................................................................................
.................................................................................
............3.......5............................................................
.................................................................................
.................................................................................
.................................................................................
.................................................................................

And these are the solution pics:

Clueless Special NC AK AN:
Hidden Text:
Image

Clueless Special FNC AK AN:
Hidden Text:
Image

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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 9:23 am 
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udosuk wrote:
...variant rules are needed (NC AK AN & FNC AK AN repectively)...
Do Non Consecutive applies to neighbors out of the nonet within a given Sudoku grid?
What is the restriction of "Fers not consecutive"?
I could not find the definition of NC, AK, AN, FNC in sudopedia, is there a way to add them?
Is there another palce in wich I can find the definition of these restrictions?

udosuk wrote:
...Here is the text format for the really lazy people: :santa:
For two digits, if I concentrate, I should have no trouble :whistle:

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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 9:30 am 
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Does "no restriction across borders of grids" mean that special rules do apply across borders? I'm assuming so.

Right now I'm trying the second puzzle. I've made all the eliminations I can in the center grid based on the standard rules and the 3 special rules. Assuming the special rules cross grid borders, I can make two eliminations each on the left middle grid and the top center grid. No love from the Clueless grid. Maybe I'm missing something.


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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 11:00 am 
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In reply to Oscar

AK, AN are respectively Anti-King and Anti-Knight and mean that two cells in the scope of the equivalent chess moves can not have the same digit.
NC, FNC apply to Non-Consecutive digits.
The scope of NC is {(0,1)(0,-1)(-1,0)(1,0)} ie one cell left/right/up/down.
The scope of FNC (Ferz Non-Consecutive) is {(-1,-1),(-1,1),(1,-1),(1,1)} ie 1 cell diagonally in each direction.
(Matt correct me if I'm wrong).
JSudoku can handle these and even even more bizarre moves, but not in this inter-grid environment. (JC another addition to the program to keep you out of mischief).
To practice the techniques in a single grid environment have a look at Djape's website.

In answer to JLynn
No restriction across the borders mean these extra rules do not apply there. I've figured that out by peeking at the solutions. Matt was more explicit on the Clueleast Explosions.

Have fun :twisted:

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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 11:12 am 
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Thanks heaps Glyn for helping me explaining. Good on you! :thumbs:

I'll just add these:

Oscar wrote:
I could not find the definition of NC, AK, AN, FNC in sudopedia, is there a way to add them?
Is there another palce in wich I can find the definition of these restrictions?

http://www.sudopedia.org/wiki/Variation
http://www.sudopedia.org/wiki/Non-Consecutive
http://jcbonsai.free.fr/sudoku/JSudokuU ... tml#design
http://jcbonsai.free.fr/sudoku/JSudokuU ... anti_chess

JLynn wrote:
Does "no restriction across borders of grids" mean that special rules do apply across borders? I'm assuming so.

If I said "no restrictions across borders of grids" in the title bar of the puzzles, it means none of NC/FNC/AK/AN applies in between 9x9 grids ("intergrid" as Glyn described in his PM to me). So for all those 5 puzzles, NC, FNC and AN does not apply across borders, and AK applies only in the 3 Explosion ones.

JLynn wrote:
Right now I'm trying the second puzzle. I've made all the eliminations I can in the center grid based on the standard rules and the 3 special rules. Assuming the special rules cross grid borders, I can make two eliminations each on the left middle grid and the top center grid. No love from the Clueless grid. Maybe I'm missing something.

I'm deeply sorry JLynn, but even I myself can't solve these puzzles without the "recursive solving" feature in JSudoku. :oops: I just publish these results as interesting phenomena in Sudoku science, instead of playable puzzles. :geek: After all it's pretty special to know you can create "puzzles" with 2 given cells and 727 blank cells, don't you think! :viking:

If time allows I'll try to add more clues and produce "human solvable" version for you guys! :ugeek:

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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 11:36 am 
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:lol: No worries. I figure I must've been half-crazy to try to do one of these anyway. I agree about the coolness of making a puzzle with as few clues as possible.


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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 2:44 pm 
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Glyn wrote:
JSudoku can handle these and even even more bizarre moves, but not in this inter-grid environment. (JC another addition to the program to keep you out of mischief)

Indeed JSudoku will make these anti-chess & non-cons-chess span across sub-grids.
But not across the clueless grid. It just consider the cells for the whole puzzle.
To view these, just move the mouse to some coner or side cell, then press 'b' to highlight its buddies / peers
I just noticed a bug in anti-king for this particular case, it does like anti-fers (diagonals only), which is fine for simple grids since they already have rows and columns, but is missing the (0,1) across sub-grids. Fixed now.

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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 3:08 pm 
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Thank you for the explanations and the links. It is allways usefull to have people to ask for help!
Seems I now have to go back to Clueless Special #2 :D

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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 3:38 pm 
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Oscar wrote:
Thank you for the explanations and the links. It is allways usefull to have people to ask for help!

And thanks for the feedback. I also think it might be a good idea to update Sudopedia more on NC/FNC/AK/AN and other fairy chess stuffs, as well as Bossdoku and other "weird science" we've been developing in the past months! :alien: Hopefully we can still do it while Ruud is on his break... :bouncy:
Oscar wrote:
Seems I now have to go back to Clueless Special #2 :D

Good idea, I think even the "Wizard" version there is more solvable than mine's here. :ugeek:

In fact, even if you use the "recursive solving" in JSudoku extensively, the last one in this page (Clueless Explosion FNC AK X) is very tricky to "solve"! :twisted: And it's more brain work over the whole grids than cell-to-cell solving, so anyone can try it (with the aid of JSudoku or other solvers which can handle the variants) even if one is not familiar with the fishes and wings and chains etc. :uberviking:

Added later:

Forgot to address an earlier query:
Oscar wrote:
Do Non Consecutive applies to neighbors out of the nonet within a given Sudoku grid?

Yes. By definition NC/FNC/AK/AN etc all apply across the whole 9x9 grid, regardless of the nonets.

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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 4:23 pm 
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udosuk wrote:
Good idea, I think even the "Wizard" version there is more solvable than mine's here. :ugeek:
I think that is probably right, so why not give it a try and see if you are a Wizard :ugeek:
I advice against running it through a solver first and looking at the log of required solving techniques, as this will probably discourage you from trying :shock:

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