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More Lace Practice http://www.rcbroughton.co.uk/sudoku/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=839 |
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Author: | simon_blow_snow [ Sun Oct 31, 2010 1:36 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: More Lace Practice |
HATMAN, thanks for the interesting puzzles once again. 2 minor suggestions though: 1) When you want to say "JSudoku uses ?? fishes" I suggest you first disable all the "fishes" techniques and check if JSudoku can solve them at all. As I tested it, the first one could be solved by JSudoku without using any fish. The second one, JSudoku did need to apply a few fishes, but not anywhere close to the number you quote. 2) If you want others to use JSudoku on your puzzle, please do provide the line codes. It is a chore to input the cages manually, and if you have already done the hard work, it would be nice to spare others of it. Here are some spoilers on solving these two: spoilers: |
Author: | Andrew [ Tue Nov 09, 2010 3:55 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: More Lace Practice |
Thanks HATMAN. Four Laces Windoku is a fun puzzle. This time I didn't use Law of Leftovers, finding it easier to use the Laces directly; then I started to make real progress when I realised that the Windows seemed even more useful for my solving path (don't think I'm giving away anything by making those general comments). My step 13c is possibly some sort of fish. It's probably not needed but I saw that step so kept it in. Steps 14a and 14b are my key breakthrough. After steps 15 and 16 the rest is straightforward. Here is my walkthrough: Solution, using my coloured worksheet: |
Author: | Andrew [ Sun Nov 14, 2010 12:56 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: More Lace Practice |
I found Three Laces Windoku-X a lot harder. It was probably mainly my own fault. In the following position I'd already done work using the lower-left lace and the lower-left window to find a hidden pair in the lower-left lace. I could see that R8C9 "sees" all the cells of the lower-right lace except for R6C8 and R9C5. It was only after Ed (many thanks!) told me that R6C8 "sees" all of the cells of N9 except for R8C9 using the lower-right lace AND the lower-right window (I'd forgotten about that ) that I understood Simon's "spoiler". Then, R6C8 = R8C9 and the only common candidate in these cells is 5 -> 7(2) cage at R6C8 = [52], R8C9 = 5, R8C8 = 8, placed for D\, 11(2) cage at R3C3 = {56}, placed for D\, etc. and the rest is relatively straightforward using quite a lot of hidden singles. I found that the "hidden windows" were useful in making these later eliminations, particularly the one in R159C159 when I got that down to a naked triple and a hidden pair. I might have found Simon's step myself if I'd also included the four given windows in my diagram. I'm not very good at making thick boundary lines in Excel worksheets; after doing them once several years ago for the basic sudoku grid, I use that again and again. Maybe I'd better try to set up a windoku grid for possible future use. Now the main reason for this post Solution, using my coloured diagram: |
Author: | Ed [ Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:33 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: More Lace Practice |
HATMAN wrote: .....Fully restrained: it has a single set of solutions. What does "fully restrained" mean? Both are indeed very interesting puzzles and was totally defeated by the Three laces one. But as Simon's spoiler for Three Laces shows, I used exactly that feature to do the Four Laces!! Must still need Even More Lace Practice. Walk-through for Four Laces Windoku 10 steps: Cheers Ed |
Author: | HATMAN [ Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:15 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: More Lace Practice |
Ed Restrainted was a slight mis-use of English by one of our European colleagues (I think it was Ruud - perhaps Tarek remembers?) meaning "constrained". We have retained it in its meaning of a puzzle structure with a limited number of solutions - as it has the nice connotation of the puzzle holding itself back. A fully restrained puzzle has just one set of solutions (i.e. insert 8 clues to make it unique) - Nikoli_freak's Hands is an example. Maurice |
Author: | HATMAN [ Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:20 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: More Lace Practice |
Simon I've started doing as you said and checking puzzles with fish switched off. I seem to remember some discusion of re-ordering the application of solution techniques in JSudoku - do you havew any knowledge of this? Maurice |
Author: | simon_blow_snow [ Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:07 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: More Lace Practice |
HATMAN wrote: I seem to remember some discusion of re-ordering the application of solution techniques in JSudoku - do you have any knowledge of this? It is actually quite straight forward, just go to the "Solvers" tab and drag and drop the techniques to re-order them. I think Para, Pyrrhon & udosuk once talked about this in one of the threads in that forum, they just put all the singles/subsets/intersections at the very top and all the wings/fishes/cycles/chains at the very bottom, or uncheck the inappropriate ones. |
Author: | HATMAN [ Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:37 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: More Lace Practice |
Thanks Simon - I'll try it |
Author: | tarek [ Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:33 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: More Lace Practice |
HATMAN wrote: Restrainted was a slight mis-use of English by one of our European colleagues (I think it was Ruud - perhaps Tarek remembers?) meaning "constrained". We have retained it in its meaning of a puzzle structure with a limited number of solutions - as it has the nice connotation of the puzzle holding itself back. I really don't remember, Ruud, however, did use "restrained" often ....tarek |
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