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h3lix
 Post subject: FNC Killer
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 8:52 pm 
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Here's a killer that is Ferz Non Consecutive (diagonally adjacent cells cannot be consecutive)

Image
3x3::k:6656:6656:6155:6155:1549:1549:5894:5894:5894:6656:6656:6155:6155:1549:5134:5134:5894:5894:18:19:20:3862:3862:5134:5134:3866:3866:27:28:29:3862:8991:8991:33:34:35:36:37:38:8991:8991:8991:42:43:44:45:46:47:8991:8991:3378:51:52:53:1591:1591:3897:3897:3378:3378:60:61:62:7488:7488:3897:3897:4683:6212:6212:2886:2886:7488:7488:7488:4683:4683:6212:6212:2886:2886:

It's still solvable without the 3 cages in the center. I haven't personally tried this yet, but the technique list hopefully puts it on par with an assassin.

Image
3x3::k:6656:6656:6155:6155:1549:1549:5894:5894:5894:6656:6656:6155:6155:1549:5134:5134:5894:5894:18:19:20:12:15:5134:5134:3866:3866:27:28:29:5:1:9:33:34:35:36:37:38:31:10:8:42:43:44:45:46:47:4:7:3:51:52:53:1591:1591:3897:3897:2:50:60:61:62:7488:7488:3897:3897:4683:6212:6212:2886:2886:7488:7488:7488:4683:4683:6212:6212:2886:2886:

It actually has a unique solution without the 6/2 and 15/2 cages as well, but JSudoku solvers can't crack it.

Borge, I would welcome color images if you don't mind making them. I don't have Excel right now and I doubt this would work on Open Office Calc (I'll see if I can buy a copy of excel 2003 somewhere)

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Ed
 Post subject: Re: FNC Killer
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 9:21 pm 
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about the second puzzle h3lix wrote:
the technique list hopefully puts it on par with an assassin.
Could do. The SudokuSolver score is 0.78 which may be Assassin level. While Ruud and I are the only one's that have posted Assassins with scores that "low", the SS score for zero killers should often be low since there are not as many cages to get solving steps from. It just does a sum of the number of weighted solving steps to get the score.

The SS score might be another useful aid to you finding/assessing puzzles. It supports quite a few variants - just make sure you go to File-Puzzle Type before doing Solver-Score.

The original gets a 0.70, the third one gets a world record 17.11 with lots and lots of T&E. Good luck! Here's the code for the third one
code:
3x3::k:6657:6657:6146:6146:1539:1539:5892:5892:5892:6657:6657:6146:6146:1539:5125:5125:5892:5892:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:5125:5125:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:3848:3848:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:7433:7433:3848:3848:4618:6151:6151:2822:2822:7433:7433:7433:4618:4618:6151:6151:2822:2822:
I'll try the second one on the weekend.

Cheers
Ed
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h3lix
 Post subject: Re: FNC Killer
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 9:50 pm 
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17.11?! :shock: Also, I didn't know sudokusolver could handle non consecutive variants. Where is that option and can it also handle Anti-Chess? That would be really helpful in gauging some of the INSANEs I have coming up (one of which feels like a V2)

Edit: disregard my question, I found it :)

Edit #2: new question, is there a way to do a custom diagonal? this Saturday's puzzle is Anti-Bishop, which is a variant that consists of several diagonals.

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Andrew
 Post subject: Re: FNC Killer
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 4:32 am 
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Thanks Dan for a fun puzzle. I hadn't tried a killer with that restriction before so I decided to try the original version of the puzzle.

Here is my walkthrough for the first FNC Killer, with the solution:
I’ve used the abbreviation FNC (Ferz Non Consecutive) where I’ve applied the diagonally non consecutive condition.

Prelims

a) R3C89 = {69/78}
b) R7C12 = {15/24}
c) 6(3) cage in N2 = {123}
d) 26(4) cage in N1 = {2789/3689/4589/4679/5678}, no 1
e) 11(4) cage in N9 = {1235}

Steps resulting from Prelims
1a. Naked triple {123} in 6(3) cage, locked for N2
1b. Naked quad {1235} in 11(4) cage, locked for N9

2. 6(3) cage in N2 = {123} -> R1C5 = 2, R1C6 + R2C5 = {13} (R1C6 + R2C5 cannot be {12/23} because of FNC), no 2 in R2C7 (FNC)

3. 45 rule on R12 2 innies R2C67 = 11 = {47/56}/[83], no 1,9, no 8 in R2C7
3a. 45 rule on R12 2 outies R3C67 = 9 = [45/54/63/72/81], no 9, no 6,7,8 in R3C7
3b. 45 rule on N3 2 outies R23C6 = 13 = {58/67}, no 4, clean-up: no 7 in R2C7 (step 3), no 5 in R3C7 (step 3a)

4. Min R3C45 = 9 -> max R4C4 = 6

5. 45 rule on R789 3 innies R7C789 = 1 outie R6C6 + 19
5a. Max R7C789 = 24 -> max R6C6 = 5

6. 45 rule on N5 2 innies R4C4 + R6C6 = 10 = [64], no 5,7 in R35C35 (FNC), no 3,5 in R5C57 + R7C5 (FNC)

7. R4C4 = 6 -> R3C45 = 9 = [54], no 4,6 in R24C3 (FNC), no 3,5 in R4C6 (FNC), clean-up: no 8 in R23C6 (step 3b), no 3,6 in R2C7 (step 3), no 1 in R3C7 (step 3a)

8. Naked pair {67} in R23C6, locked for C6 and N2
8a. Killer pair 6,7 in R3C6 and R3C89, locked for R3

9. Naked pair {89} in R12C4, locked for C4 and 24(4) cage at R1C3, no 8,9 in R12C3
9a. R12C4 = {89} = 17 -> R12C3 = 7 = [43/52/61], no 7, no 1,3 in R1C3, no 5 in R2C3

10. R6C6 = 4 -> R7C789 = 23 (step 5) = {689}, locked for R7 and N9

11. R6C6 = 4 -> R7C56 = 9 = [72], no 1,3 in R6C57 + R8C5 (FNC), no 8 in R8C6 (FNC), clean-up: no 4 in R7C12

12. Naked pair {15} in R7C12, locked for R7 and N7
12a. R7C34 = {34}, locked for 15(4) cage at R7C3 -> R8C4 = 1, R8C3 = 7 (cage sum), no 6,8 in R8C2 (FNC), no 2 in R9C3 (FNC)
12b. Naked pair {34} in R79C4, locked for C4 and N8

13. R89C7 = [47] = 11 -> R89C6 = 13 = [58], R2C7 = 5, R2C6 = 6 (step 3), R3C6 = 7, R3C7 = 2 (step 3a), no 1,3 in R2C8 + R4C68 (FNC), no 4,6 in R13C8 (FNC), no 6 in R7C7 (FNC), no 9 in R8C5 (FNC), no 6 in R9C5 (FNC), clean-up: no 8 in R3C8, no 8,9 in R3C9
13a. R3C89 = [96], no 5,7 in R24C8 (FNC), no 8 in R2C9 + R4C79 (FNC)
13b. R7C8 = 6 (hidden single in R7), no 5,7 in R6C9 (FNC)

14. R89C5 = [69], R9C4 = 3 (cage sum), R7C34 = [34], no 2 in R6C24 + R8C2 (FNC), no 5 in R6C35 (FNC) , clean-up: no 4 in R1C3 (step 9a)

15. R56C4 = [27], R56C5 = [18], R2C5 = 3, R1C6 = 1, R4C5 = 5, R45C6 = [93], no 1 in R46C3 (FNC), no 6,8 in R5C3 (FNC), no 8 in R5C7 (FNC)

16. Naked triple {138} in R3C123, locked for N1 -> R2C3 = 2, R1C3 = 5 (step 9a), R4C3 = 8, R3C3 = 1, no 3 in R3C2 (FNC), no 7,9 in R5C2 (FNC)
16a. R3C12 = [38], no 2,4 in R24C2 (FNC), no 7,9 in R24C1 (FNC)
16b. R2C1 = 4, R2C8 = 8, R12C4 = [89], R2C2 = 7, R2C9 = 1, R1C789 = [374]

17. Naked pair {23} in R8C89, locked for R8 and N9 -> R8C12 = [89], R9C89 = [15], no 2 in R8C9 (FNC)

18. R4C7 = 1, R4C12 = [23], R9C1 = 4, R9C3 = 6, R5C3 = 9, R6C3 = 6, no 5 in R57C2 (FNC)

and the rest is naked singles.

9 6 5 8 2 1 3 7 4
4 7 2 9 3 6 5 8 1
3 8 1 5 4 7 2 9 6
2 3 8 6 5 9 1 4 7
7 4 9 2 1 3 6 5 8
1 5 6 7 8 4 9 3 2
5 1 3 4 7 2 8 6 9
8 9 7 1 6 5 4 2 3
6 2 4 3 9 8 7 1 5

Now to try the second version with the three central cages removed. It should be interesting because it removes my first breakthrough step.


Last edited by Andrew on Sat May 22, 2010 3:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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h3lix
 Post subject: Re: FNC Killer
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 5:00 am 
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The breakthrough move (5-6 I assume) is exactly the interaction I was going for :cheesey:

I still haven't tried version 2 yet (I just finished making a visual walkthrough for the INSANE version of this Saturday's anti-chess), but that's next on my queue. Depending on how it turns out, I might make a visual walkthrough for this one too.

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Andrew
 Post subject: Re: FNC Killer
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 7:45 am 
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Thanks Dan for also posting the second version. I enjoyed this one too but had to work quite a lot harder.

Rating Comment:
Just a general comment that I'm surprised that the SS score for the second version is only slightly higher than for the original version.

Here is my walkthrough for the second version of the FNC Killer, same solution as for the first version:
I’ve used the abbreviation FNC (Ferz Non Consecutive) where I’ve applied the diagonally non consecutive condition.

Prelims

a) R3C89 = {69/78}
b) R7C12 = {15/24}
c) 6(3) cage in N2 = {123}
d) 26(4) cage in N1 = {2789/3689/4589/4679/5678}, no 1
e) 11(4) cage in N9 = {1235}

Steps resulting from Prelims
1a. Naked triple {123} in 6(3) cage, locked for N2
1b. Naked quad {1235} in 11(4) cage, locked for N9

2. 6(3) cage in N2 = {123} -> R1C5 = 2, R1C6 + R2C5 = {13} (R1C6 + R2C5 cannot be {12/23} because of FNC), no 2 in R2C7 (FNC)

3. 45 rule on R12 2 innies R2C67 = 11 = {47/56}/[83], no 1,9, no 8 in R2C7
3a. 45 rule on R12 2 outies R3C67 = 9 = [45/54/63/72/81], no 9, no 6,7,8 in R3C7
3b. 45 rule on N3 2 outies R23C6 = 13 = {58/67}, no 4, clean-up: no 7 in R2C7 (step 3), no 5 in R3C7 (step 3a)
3c. 45 rule on N3 2 innies R23C7 = 7 = [34/43/52/61]
[Step 3c added for use in clean-ups.]

4. 45 rule on R89 2 innies R8C34 = 8 = {17/26/35}, no 4,8,9
4a. 45 rule on R89 2 outies R7C34 = 7 = {16/34} (cannot be {25} which clashes with R7C12)
4b. 45 rule on N7 2 innies R78C3 = 10 = [37/46], R7C4 = {34}, R8C4 = {12}

5. Naked pair {34} in R7C34, locked for R7, clean-up: no 2 in R7C12
5a. Naked pair {15} in R7C12, locked for R7 and N7

6. R7C6 = 2 (hidden single in R7) -> R8C4 = 1, R8C3 = 7 (step 4), R7C3 = 3 (step 4b), R7C4 = 4, no 2,4 in R6C24 + R8C2 (FNC), no 3,5 in R6C35 + R8C5 (FNC), no 1,3 in R6C57 (FNC), no 6,8 in R9C24 (FNC), no 2 in R9C3 (FNC)

7. R3C5 = 4 (hidden single in N2), no 3,5 in R24C46 (FNC), clean-up: no 3 in R2C7 (step 3c), no 8 in R2C6 (step 3), no 6 in R2C7 (step 3), no 5,8 in R3C6 (step 3b), no 1 in R3C7 (step 3c)

8. Naked pair {67} in R23C6, locked for C6 and N2
8a. Killer pair 6,7 in R3C6 and R3C89, locked for R3
8b. Naked triple {589} in R123C4, locked for C4
8c. 6 in C4 only in R456C4, locked for N5

9. 4 in N9 only in R89C7, locked for C7 -> R2C7 = 5, R2C6 = 6 (step 3), R3C6 = 7, R3C7 = 2 (step 3c), no 7 in R1C7 (FNC), no 4,6 in R13C8 (FNC), no 1,3 in R2C8 + R4C68 (FNC), no 6,8 in R4C57 (FNC), clean-up: no 8 in R3C8, no 8,9 in R3C9
9a. 1,3 in R3 only in R3C123, locked for N1

10. R3C89 = [96], no 5,7 in R24C8 (FNC), no 8 in R24C9 (FNC)

11. 18(3) cage in N8 = {369/378} (cannot be {567} = [675] because of FNC), no 5
11a. R9C4 = 3 (18(3) cage = {378} cannot be [873] because of FNC)
11b. 7 of {378} must be in R9C5 -> no 8 in R9C5
11c. 7 in C4 only in R456C4, locked for N5

12. 5 in N8 only in R89C6, locked for C6
12a. 24(4) cage at R8C6 must contain 4,5 = {4569/4578}
12b. 4,6,7 only in R89C7 -> no 8,9 in R89C7
12c. 8,9 in N9 only in R7C789, locked for R7

13. 9 in N2 only in R12C4, locked for 24(4) cage at R1C3, no 9 in R12C3
13a. 24(4) cage = {2589/4569}, 5 locked for R1
13b. 2 of {2589} must be in R2C3 -> no 8 in R2C3
13c. R2C3 = {24} -> no 4 in R1C3

14. R2C59 = {13} (hidden pair in R2)
14a. 7 in R2 only in R2C12, locked for N1

15. R2C3 = {24}, no 3 in R3C2 (FNC)
15a. R3C1 = 3 (hidden single in R3), no 2,4 in R24C2 (FNC)

16. 26(4) cage in N1 = {2789/4679}
16a. 2 of {2789} must be in R2C1 -> no 8 in R2C1

17. 2 in R2 only in R2C13 -> no 1 in R3C2 (FNC)
17a. R3C3 = 1 (hidden single in R3), no 2 in R4C4 (FNC)
17b. R5C4 = 2 (hidden single in C4), no 1,3 in R4C5 (FNC)

18. R25C5 = {13} (hidden pair in C5)
18a. R4C5 = 5 (hidden single in C5), no 4 in R5C6 (FNC)

19. 4 in C6 only in R46C6, no 3 in R5C57 (FNC)
19a. R5C5 = 1, R2C5 = 3, R1C6 = 1, R2C9 = 1

20. R9C8 = 1 (hidden single in N9), no 2 in R8C9 (FNC)

21. R4C7 = 1 (hidden single in N6)

22. R1C7 = 3 (hidden single in C7), no 4 in R2C8 (FNC)
22a. R2C8 = 8, R1C89 = [74], R2C4 = 9, R2C2 = 7, R7C8 = 6, R7C5 = 7, no 8 in R1C3 (FNC), no 6,8 in R6C46 (FNC), no 5,7 in R6C79 (FNC)

23. R89C7 = [47], no 8 in R8C6 (FNC), no 5 in R9C6 (FNC)
23a. R89C7 = [47] = 11 -> R89C6 = 13 = [58], R8C89 = [23], R9C9 = 5, no 9 in R8C5 (FNC), no 6 in R9C5 (FNC)

24. R6C4 = 7, R4C4 = 6, R4C8 = 4, R4C6 = 9, R56C6 = [34], R6C5 = 8, R56C8 = [53], no 6 in R6C7 (FNC)

25. R6C7 = 9, R6C9 = 2, R6C3 = 6, R1C34 = [58], R2C3 = 2 (cage sum), no 5 in R7C2 (FNC)

and the rest is naked singles.

I won't be trying the third version!!


Last edited by Andrew on Sat May 22, 2010 3:37 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Børge
 Post subject: Re: FNC Killer
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 3:01 pm 
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h3lix wrote:
Borge, I would welcome color images if you don't mind making them. I don't have Excel right now and I doubt this would work on Open Office Calc (I'll see if I can buy a copy of excel 2003 somewhere)
In an email to me Ed wrote that he also uses Open Office, an that it recognizes my udosuk package. Exactly what he puts into that statement I do not know.
I wrote back and asked if my program actually works with Open Office Calc, but Ed's reply somehow got lost.

If it does work, I am really impressed with Open Office.
Novell distributes an Open Office version, which includes support for Excel macros, aka VBA, a feature partly incorporated into the mainstream version with version 3.0.
AFAIK the Novell evaluation version is free, but you have to register.

http://www.novell.com/products/openofficewindows/
http://download.novell.com/index.jsp?se ... ilies=3402
http://www.novell.com/products/openoffi ... rsion.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenOffice.org


FNC killer v1 images with udosuk Style Killer Cages: 
Image     Image
FNC killer v2 images with udosuk Style Killer Cages: 
Image     Image
FNC killer v3 images with udosuk Style Killer Cages: 
Image     Image

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h3lix
 Post subject: Re: FNC Killer
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 9:29 pm 
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Thank you very much Borge, I have office 3.0, so I'll give it a shot. I've barely had a chance to look at the V2 of this puzzle but hopefully I'll get to it today.

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h3lix
 Post subject: Re: FNC Killer
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 3:38 am 
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I'm happy with how the second version turned out. I had hoped the split cages of 15/4 and 20/4 would remain crucial and the solution would involve combination crunching for the 4 cell cages. Here's a visual walkthrough.

Visual walkthrough for FNC killer V2:
Image
1.
Cage 6/3 in N2 = {123}, R1C6+R2C5 cannot contain a 2, as FNC would remove all candidates from the other.
=> R1C6 = 2

Outie in N3, R23C6 = 13 = {49|58|67}

Outie in R89, R7C34 = 7
Cage 6/2 in R7 = {15|24}, must contain 2 or 5
=> R7C34 = {16|34}

Image
2.
Outie in N7, R78C4 = 5
=> R7C4 != 6

Innie in N7, R78C3 = 10 = {19|37|46}
R7C34 and cage 6/2 form killer naked pair with 1 and 4 on R7
=> R8C3 != 4, R7C3 != 6
=> R7C34 = {34}
=> cage 6/2 in R7 = {15}

Outie in R12, R3C67 = 9
=> R3C6 != 9, R2C6 != 4

Innie on R12, R2C67 = 11 = {56}|[74]|[83]|[92]
FNC with R1C6, R2C7 != 2, R2C6 != 9, R3C67 != [45]

Image
3.
Cage 11/4 in N9 = {1235}, 4 in N9 locked in R89C7
=> R23C7 cannot contain 4 (linked possibilites crossed out in blue)

Cage 15/2 in N3 = {69|78}, must contain 6 or 8
R3C6 = 8|7 is linked with R2C7 = 6|5
=> R3C6 != 8, R2C7 != 6

Image
4.
Cage 15/2 in R3 = {69}

{13} in R3 must be in N1
2 of R2 must be in N1
At least one of {13} must be in R3C13
=> R2C2 != 2, one of R2C13 is 2
=> R3C2 != 1 or 3
Naked pair with {13} on R3

Candidates populated for N2

Image
5.
Cage 24/4 in R12 must contain 9, cannot contain 1 or 3
=> 24/4 in R12 = {2589}|{2679}|{4569}
cannot contain more than 2 of {267} (conflict with N2)
=> 24/4 in R12 = {2589}|{4569}, must contain 5

one of R12C4 must be 9
if R12C4 were [59], R12C3 would add up to 10. FNC would rule out {46} and {28}, removing all possible combinations.
=> R1C4 != 5

Image
6.
Singles and basic moves

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Last edited by h3lix on Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Ed
 Post subject: Re: FNC Killer
PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 6:24 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 1:16 am
Posts: 1044
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h3lix wrote:
new question, is there a way to do a custom diagonal? this Saturday's puzzle is Anti-Bishop, which is a variant that consists of several diagonals.
I can't work out how to do it. SS can't read JSudoku code so can't read all those wonderful options in JS. It can only do PS, SumoCue and it's own.
Børge wrote:
I wrote back and asked if my program actually works with Open Office Calc, but Ed's reply somehow got lost.
;) Very diplomatic Børge...but just my usual slowness. Unfortunately, can't make your program work with Open Office. It opens but doesn't make a new worksheet with the code on the clipboard. I tried the Novell version but it doesn't work either. Thanks for the suggestion [edit: but I think it was causing Windows to crash so have uninstalled it].

Now, back on topic of FNC Killer version 2. I found it a really good challenge so thanks very much h3lix! It was way harder than the original for me. Spent a good couple of hours doing it a couple of times. I'm not very methodical with the FNC eliminations so made it seem even tougher.

This is an alternative way to do the key breakthrough from before Andrew's step 13a and h3lix's step 5

NOTE: (This should work without placing the 4 at r3c5).

Image

1. 5 in n2 only in r13c4 -> no 4 in r2c3 (FNC)

2. 24(4)n1 must have 2 or 8 for r2c3 = {2589} only combination

3. r2c4 = (89) -> no 8 in r1c3 (same cage and FNC)
3a. -> r2c3 = 2, r1c3 = 5, r12c4 = {89}

Cracked.

Cheers
Ed


Last edited by Ed on Sat May 22, 2010 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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