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Clueless Flower Puzzle http://www.rcbroughton.co.uk/sudoku/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=140 
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Author:  Princess Amy [ Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:42 am ] 
Post subject:  Clueless Flower Puzzle 
I've created a Clueless Flower Puzzle! Right now, all of the 12 surrounding puzzles are "solveable" on their own, and I'd like help removing a few clues to make them nonsolveable without working back and forth between other puzzles and the flower itself. In the middle of the "solution" picture is the unsolved "Flower" itself, which is fairly hard when those are the only clues available. So those clues couldn't be the ones removed, unless other numbers allow them to be solved.... You can preview the puzzles and solutions in my MySpace album here: (LOL you can also see pictures of me in those albums) http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.c ... D=10360563 http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.c ... D=10360564 There are 5 more files there with bigger, "printable" versions of the various sections of the puzzle. PARA? BORGE? ENXIO? HATMAN? UDOSUK? anyone else interested in helping me finish this? Or at the very least getting it posted here in a readable, printable format? I will be happy to send the Excel file to someone who can remove some clues and make the puzzle a little harder! If you can do so, email me: princessamygrace @ comcast.net thanks! Princess Amy 
Author:  enxio27 [ Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:56 pm ] 
Post subject:  Re: Clueless Flower Puzzle 
Princess Amy wrote: I've created a Clueless Flower Puzzle! You can preview the puzzles and solutions in my MySpace album here: (LOL you can also see pictures of me in those albums) http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.c ... D=10360563 http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.c ... D=10360564 These links take me to the main myspace login page instead of to the images. I don't have a myspace account (and don't really want one), so I'm not sure what to do from here. I'll PM you my email address. If you email them to me, I can upload them to Boerge's Sudoku SkyDrive. I'm no good at making them into harder puzzles, though. 
Author:  BĂ¸rge [ Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:33 pm ] 
Post subject:  Re: Clueless Flower Puzzle 
enxio27 wrote: Princess Amy wrote: If you email them to me, I can upload them to Boerge's Sudoku SkyDrive. 
Author:  enxio27 [ Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:22 pm ] 
Post subject:  Re: Clueless Flower Puzzle 
Very interesting puzzle! Very colorful! I'm curious as to how you generated it. Once I'm sure I understand everything, I'll upload the images and post it here. Let me make sure I have this straight: The center boxes of each of the puzzles 112 form the outer boxes of a vanilla flower puzzle? Do I also understand correctly that the flower puzzle isn't needed to be able to solve the first twelve puzzles? And there are no puzzles to correspond with the 9 boxes in the center of the flower puzzle? There are a couple of things I'm not understanding: 1. There is no color to define the disjoint areas in puzzle #1. Do the disjoint groups correspond strictly to cell position within each box? 2. I'm not familiar with a triplet puzzle (#7). How is it different from a vanilla sudoku? 3. Is the #13 flower puzzle on the worksheet labeled "Puzzles" the same as the main flower? If so, it seems to be missing a column of boxes. Is it supposed to be the same as the one on the worksheet labeled "The Core"? You want to make it so that completing the flower puzzle is essential to completing the other 12, right? The only way I see to do that is to make an additional nine puzzles for the boxes at the center of the flower. From there, you may be able to eliminate some of the clues in the outer 12 boxes of the flower (and by extension, puzzles 112). I'm glad you didn't put a killer or other mathrelated puzzle in there! (I'm not really fond of even the nonconsecutive, but I know you are.) 
Author:  Princess Amy [ Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:32 pm ] 
Post subject:  Re: Clueless Flower Puzzle 
Right now, all 12 of the outside puzzles can be solved by themselves. I'd love to take a number out here and there to make them nonsolveable on their own, but I'm too scared to remove numbers. Puzzle #1's center goes with the first outside box on the top row of the flower. Puzzle #2's box goes with the second one on the top row, etc, and so on around the flower. For the disjoint groups in puzzle #1, yes it's in positions. It's just all 9 positions are an extra group. Would you prefer I color each of the 9 groups? For puzzle #7 triplets, all three of the shaded boxes have exactly the same sequence of numbers. Does that make sense? I'll have to see where I lost a row in the flower with just a few clues (on the "solutions" page). It was supposed to be the same as the core, yes. The whole flower can be solved with just those clues given. If numbers were removed from the outside puzzles, as long as those numbers were solveable, the rest of the centers could be figured out in the outside puzzles too. Hope that answers your questions! Thanks for helping me with this!!!!! Amy Grace 
Author:  enxio27 [ Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:50 pm ] 
Post subject:  Re: Clueless Flower Puzzle 
Princess Amy wrote: Right now, all 12 of the outside puzzles can be solved by themselves. I'd love to take a number out here and there to make them nonsolveable on their own, but I'm too scared to remove numbers. Like I said, you might have to create nine additional puzzles for the center boxes of the flower in order to be able to remove any more clues in the first 12. Have you run those 12 through the "Optimize" option (under "Extra") in Sudocue? Quote: For the disjoint groups in puzzle #1, yes it's in positions. It's just all 9 positions are an extra group. Would you prefer I color each of the 9 groups? I can do that, if you like. It would have made the groups more apparent to me. (I have seen disjoint group puzzles with the colors in other patterns, even randomly arranged, within the boxes, also.) Quote: For puzzle #7 triplets, all three of the shaded boxes have exactly the same sequence of numbers. Does that make sense? So the solutions to those three boxes are identical? Hmmm. . . I've never seen one of those before. Interesting! Quote: I'll have to see where I lost a row in the flower Look at spreadsheet rows 5786 on the worksheet named "Puzzles". Columns 5, 6, and 7 of the flower puzzle and columns 7, 8, and 9 of the flower solution are missing. No matternow that I know it's supposed to be the same as on the worksheets named "Solutions" and "The Core", I'll just fix it. 
Author:  Princess Amy [ Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:08 pm ] 
Post subject:  Re: Clueless Flower Puzzle 
Ok here's what I mean about making them unsolveable on their own. In puzzle one, remove the clue "5" from Nonet 6. Now look at the solution. The 5 & 7 in the center Nonet and in Nonet 6 are not solveable. However, as long as the "core" numbers in the center Nonet are still solveable, the flower can be solved, and the 5 & 7 will eventually be solveable. The Core numbers for puzzle #1 are the 1 in R4C6, 6 in R5C4 and 8 in R6C6. If the core numbers stay in each of the 12 exterior puzzles, the flower is solveable. If the unsolveable parts of the 12 exterior puzzles are related to the center nonets, they will eventually become solveable. Hope that helps??? Amy Grace 
Author:  enxio27 [ Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:27 pm ] 
Post subject:  Re: Clueless Flower Puzzle 
Princess Amy wrote: Ok here's what I mean about making them unsolveable on their own. I think I get it. I'll post the images this evening or tomorrow. I'm going to have to leave the actual puzzle creation/revising to someone else, though. 
Author:  Princess Amy [ Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:11 am ] 
Post subject:  Re: Clueless Flower Puzzle 
Well I see a "typo" in the shading in puzzle #6. On the bottom row, the given 6 & 4 should be shaded pink, and so should the next two cells on the bottom row in Nonet 8. I guess it still needs some proofreading! Sorry about that... Amy 
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