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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:18 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:44 pm
Posts: 54
Richard,

I created this killer:

Image

Code:
3x3::k:4608:5889:2562:3843:3843:3845:3845:2055:3336:4608:5889:2562:3843:5133:3845:4879:2055:3336:4608:5889:2580:5133:5133:5133:4879:4879:3336:5889:5889:2580:7710:7710:2336:2336:3106:3106:1828:4389:4389:3111:7710:2336:3114:3114:3106:1828:1828:3111:3111:7710:7710:3123:7732:7732:4918:3639:3639:4153:4153:4153:3123:7732:3390:4918:2112:3639:4674:4153:3908:2629:7732:3390:4918:2112:4674:4674:3908:3908:2629:7732:3390:

JSudoku confirms that it has a unique solution. Then I gave it to SSolver(3.2.1) for scoring. After 30 minutes there was still no score.

After solving it on my own to confirm that it is possible to do it without T&E I started stepping through it using SSolver. Up to this point:
Code:
.-------------------------------.-------------------------------.-------------------------------.
| 67        49        28        | 2347      68        19        | 5         17        238       |
| 567       49        28        | 2347      35        19        | 46        17        238       |
| 57        1         3         | 47        56        28        | 46        9         28        |
:-------------------------------+-------------------------------+-------------------------------:
| 3         6         7         | 8         9         5         | 1         2         4         |
| 4         8         9         | 1         2         3         | 7         5         6         |
| 1         2         5         | 6         4         7         | 3         8         9         |
:-------------------------------+-------------------------------+-------------------------------:
| 28        7         1         | 23        38        4         | 9         6         5         |
| 9         3         6         | 5         17        28        | 28        4         17        |
| 28        5         4         | 9         17        6         | 28        3         17        |
'-------------------------------.-------------------------------.-------------------------------'

Here's the protocol:
SudokuSolver V3.2.1 by Richard Broughton
Successfully Imported Puzzle definition


Preliminaries
Cage 17(2) n4 - cells ={89}
Cage 8(2) n7 - cells do not use 489
Cage 8(2) n3 - cells do not use 489
Cage 12(2) n6 - cells do not use 126
Cage 12(2) n69 - cells do not use 126
Cage 10(2) n14 - cells do not use 5
Cage 10(2) n1 - cells do not use 5
Cage 10(2) n9 - cells do not use 5
Cage 7(3) n4 - cells ={124}
Cage 9(3) n56 - cells do not use 789
Cage 19(3) n3 - cells do not use 1
Cage 19(3) n7 - cells do not use 1

1. Naked pair {89} found at r5c23
1a. Cage sum in cage 10(2) n14 - removed 12 from r3c3
1b. Cage sum in cage 12(2) n6 - removed 34 from r5c7 - removed 34 from r5c8
1c. Only combination {57} valid in cage 12(2) n6

2. Naked pair {57} found at r5c78
2a. Cage sum in cage 12(2) n69 - removed 57 from r7c7
2b. Only combinations {129} {138} {246} valid in cage 12(3) n6
2c. Combinations {57} no longer valid in cage 12(2) n69
2d. Combinations {1579} {2578} {4567} no longer valid in combined cages 12(2) n69 & 10(2) n9

3. Naked triple {124} found at r6c12 r5c1
3a. Cage sum in cage 10(2) n14 - removed 689 from r3c3
3b. Combinations {19} {28} no longer valid in cage 10(2) n14

4. 45 Rule on n7 found single innie r9c3=4
4a. Cage sum in cage 10(2) n1 - removed 6 from r1c3 - removed 6 from r2c3
4b. Cage sum in cage 10(2) n14 - removed 6 from r4c3
4c. Cage sum in cage 18(3) n78 - removed 1237 from r8c4 - removed 1237 from r9c4
4d. Cage sum in cage 10(2) n9 - removed 6 from r8c7
4e. Combinations {46} no longer valid in cage 10(2) n1
4f. Combinations {46} no longer valid in cage 10(2) n14
4g. Combinations {469} {478} no longer valid in cage 19(3) n7
4h. Combinations {149} {248} {347} no longer valid in cage 14(3) n7
4i. Only combinations {459} {468} valid in cage 18(3) n78
4j. Combinations {1469} {2468} {3467} no longer valid in combined cages 10(2) n1 & 10(2) n14

5. Naked pair {37} found at r34c3
5a. Combinations {37} no longer valid in cage 10(2) n1

6. 45 Rule on n3 found single innie r1c7=5
6a. Cage sum in cage 8(2) n3 - removed 3 from r1c8 - removed 3 from r2c8
6b. Cage sum in cage 12(2) n6 - removed 7 from r5c8
6c. Combinations {168} {249} {267} {348} no longer valid in cage 15(3) n23
6d. Combinations {35} no longer valid in cage 8(2) n3
6e. Combinations {157} {256} no longer valid in cage 13(3) n3
6f. Combinations {568} no longer valid in cage 19(3) n3

7. Naked Single 7 found at r5c7
7a. Cage sum in cage 10(2) n9 - removed 3 from r8c7 - removed 3 from r9c7
7b. Combinations {37} no longer valid in cage 10(2) n9
7c. Combinations {3478} no longer valid in combined cages 12(2) n69 & 10(2) n9

8. Naked Single 5 found at r5c8
8a. Only combinations {24789} {34689} valid in cage 30(5) n69

9. 45 Rule on n369 found single innie r4c7=1
9a. Cage sum in cage 9(3) n56 - removed 34 from r4c6 - removed 4 from r5c6
9b. Cage sum in cage 10(2) n9 - removed 9 from r8c7 - removed 9 from r9c7
9c. Combinations {234} no longer valid in cage 9(3) n56
9d. Only combination {246} valid in cage 12(3) n6
9e. Combinations {19} no longer valid in cage 10(2) n9
9f. Combinations {1489} no longer valid in combined cages 12(2) n69 & 10(2) n9

10. 45 Rule on n147 found single innie r6c3=5
10a. Cage sum in cage 12(3) n45 - removed 2 from r5c4 - removed 2789 from r6c4
10b. Only combinations {156} {345} valid in cage 12(3) n45

11. Naked triple {367} found at r4c123
11a. Cage sum in cage 9(3) n56 - removed 2 from r5c6

12. 45 Rule on c89 found single innie r3c8=9
12a. Cage sum in cage 19(3) n3 - removed 3 from r2c7 - removed 3 from r3c7
12b. Combinations {139} no longer valid in cage 13(3) n3
12c. Combinations {379} {478} no longer valid in cage 19(3) n3
12d. Combinations {37} no longer valid in split cage 10(2) n3

13. Naked quad {2468} found at r2389c7
13a. Combinations {48} no longer valid in cage 12(2) n69

14. Hidden single 6 found at r5c9 in cage 12(3) n6
14a. Cage sum in cage 9(3) n56 - removed 2 from r4c6
14b. Cage sum in cage 12(3) n6 - removed 8 from r4c8 - removed 89 from r4c9
14c. Cage sum in cage 12(3) n45 - removed 1 from r6c4
14d. Combinations {346} no longer valid in cage 13(3) n3
14e. Combinations {126} no longer valid in cage 9(3) n56
14f. Combinations {256} {346} no longer valid in cage 13(3) n9
14g. Combinations {26} no longer valid in split cage 8(2) n5
14h. Combinations {1269} {2367} no longer valid in combined cages s10(2) n2 & s8(2) n5
14i. Combinations {2346} no longer valid in combined cages s8(2) n5 & s7(2) n5

15. Naked Single 5 found at r4c6
15a. Only combinations {24789} {34689} valid in cage 30(5) n5

16. Naked Single 3 found at r5c6
16a. Cage sum in cage 15(3) n23 - removed 7 from r1c6 - removed 7 from r2c6
16b. Cage sum in cage 12(3) n45 - removed 4 from r5c4 - removed 4 from r6c4
16c. Combinations {357} no longer valid in cage 15(3) n23
16d. Combinations {34689} no longer valid in cage 30(5) n5
16e. Combinations {345} no longer valid in cage 12(3) n45
16f. Combinations {37} no longer valid in split cage 10(2) n2
16g. Combinations {34} no longer valid in split cage 7(2) n5
16h. Only combination {1569} valid in combined cages s14(2) n8 & s7(2) n5

17. Naked Single 1 found at r5c4

18. Naked Single 6 found at r6c4
18a. Cage sum in cage 18(3) n78 - removed 8 from r8c4 - removed 8 from r9c4
18b. Combinations {468} no longer valid in cage 18(3) n78
18c. Combinations {68} no longer valid in split cage 14(2) n8

19. Naked pair {59} found at r89c4
19a. Combinations {159} {258} {357} {456} no longer valid in cage 15(3) n2
19b. Only combinations {1267} {1348} {2347} valid in cage 16(4) n8
19c. Only combinations {168} {267} {348} valid in cage 15(3) n8

20. Naked pair {24} found at r4c89

21. Naked Single 8 found at r4c4

22. Naked Single 9 found at r4c5
22a. Combinations {249} no longer valid in cage 15(3) n2
22b. Combinations {1289} {1379} {1469} {2369} {2459} no longer valid in cage 20(4) n2

23. Hidden single 9 found at r6c9 in cage 30(5) n69
23a. Cage sum in cage 12(2) n69 - removed 3 from r7c7
23b. Combinations {139} no longer valid in cage 13(3) n9

24. Naked Single 3 found at r6c7

25. Naked Single 8 found at r6c8

26. Naked Single 9 found at r7c7

27. 45 Rule on c9 found single innie r4c9=4
27a. Only combination {238} valid in cage 13(3) n3
27b. Combinations {148} {247} no longer valid in cage 13(3) n9

28. Naked Single 2 found at r4c8
28a. Cage sum in cage 8(2) n3 - removed 6 from r1c8 - removed 6 from r2c8
28b. Combinations {26} no longer valid in cage 8(2) n3
28c. Combinations {24789} no longer valid in cage 30(5) n69

29. Naked pair {17} found at r12c8

30. Naked triple {238} found at r123c9
30a. Combinations {289} no longer valid in cage 19(3) n3
30b. Combinations {238} no longer valid in cage 13(3) n9
30c. Combinations {28} no longer valid in split cage 10(2) n3
30d. Combinations {1278} no longer valid in combined cages 8(2) n3 & s10(2) n3

31. Naked pair {46} found at r23c7
31a. Combinations {46} no longer valid in cage 10(2) n9

32. Combinations {168} no longer valid in cage 15(3) n2
32a. Removed redundant candidates 1

33. Combinations {1568} no longer valid in cage 20(4) n2

34. Candidate 6 locked in c3 for n7 nowhere else in n7
34a. Cage sum in cage 8(2) n7 - removed 2 from r8c2 - removed 2 from r9c2
34b. Combinations {568} no longer valid in cage 19(3) n7
34c. Combinations {26} no longer valid in cage 8(2) n7

35. Removed redundant candidates 5 from cage 19(3) n7

36. Candidate 5 locked in c1 for n1 nowhere else in n1
36a. Only combinations {12389} {12479} {13469} {13478} {23468} valid in cage 23(5) n14

37. 45 Rule on r5 - innies r5c15 total 6
37a. Found a hidden cage cage h6(2) n45

38. 45 Rule on c12 - innies r57c2 total 15
38a. Removed candidate 9 from r5c2
38b. Set candidate at r7c2 to 7
38c. Cage sum in cage 14(3) n7 - removed 28 from r7c3 - removed 289 from r8c3
38d. Cage sum in cage 8(2) n7 - removed 1 from r8c2 - removed 1 from r9c2
38e. Only combinations {12479} {13469} valid in cage 23(5) n14
38f. Combinations {379} no longer valid in cage 19(3) n7
38g. Only combination {167} valid in cage 14(3) n7
38h. Combinations {17} no longer valid in cage 8(2) n7

39. Naked Single 9 found at r5c3
39a. Cage sum in cage 10(2) n1 - removed 1 from r1c3 - removed 1 from r2c3
39b. Combinations {19} no longer valid in cage 10(2) n1
39c. Only combination {2378} valid in combined cages 10(2) n1 & 10(2) n14

40. Naked pair {35} found at r89c2
40a. Combinations {12479} no longer valid in cage 23(5) n14

41. Naked Single 6 found at r4c2

42. Naked pair {28} found at r12c3
42a. Only combinations {369} {459} {567} valid in cage 18(3) n1

43. Naked triple {289} found at r789c1
43a. Cage sum in cage h6(2) n45 - removed 4 from r5c5
43b. Only combination {567} valid in cage 18(3) n1

44. Naked Single 4 found at r5c1
44a. Cage sum in cage 7(3) n4 - removed 1 from r6c2

45. Naked Single 2 found at r5c5

46. Naked Single 2 found at r6c2

47. Naked Single 1 found at r6c1

48. 45 Rule on c1 found single innie r4c1=3
48a. Cage sum in cage 10(2) n14 - removed 7 from r3c3

49. Naked Single 7 found at r4c3

50. Naked Single 3 found at r3c3

51. Hidden single 5 found at r7c9 in r7

52. Candidate 7 locked in c4 for n2 nowhere else in n2

53. Candidate 9 in c6 must be in split cage 10(2) n2
53a. Removed combinations {28} {46} - cells ={19}
53b. Only combination {159} valid in cage 15(3) n23

54. Naked pair {19} found at r12c6
54a. Combinations {1478} no longer valid in cage 20(4) n2

55. Hidden single 1 found at r3c2 in r3

56. Candidate 5 in c5 must be in cage 20(4) n2
56a. Removed combinations {2378} {2468} {3467}

57. Limited placement of candidates in cage 15(3) n2
57a. Removed 34 from r1c5

58. Limited placement of candidates in cage 15(3) n8
58a. Removed 8 from r9c5

59. Limited placement of candidates in cage 20(4) n2
59a. Removed 48 from r2c5
59b. Removed 2 from r3c4
59c. Removed 48 from r3c5
59d. Removed 46 from r3c6

60. Candidate 4 locked in n2 for c4 nowhere else in c4

61. Candidate 6 locked in n2 for c5 nowhere else in c5

62. Limited placement of candidates in cage 15(3) n8
62a. Removed 7 from r8c6
62b. Removed 7 from r9c6

63. Naked quad {2468} found at r3789c6
63a. Cage sum in cage 30(5) n5 - removed 7 from r6c5

64. Naked Single 7 found at r6c6

65. Naked Single 4 found at r6c5

66. Hidden pair {17} found at r9c59 in r9
66a. Combinations {348} no longer valid in cage 15(3) n8

67. Removed redundant candidates 4 from cage 15(3) n8

68. Naked triple {268} found at r389c6
68a. Combinations {1267} no longer valid in cage 16(4) n8

69. Naked Single 4 found at r7c6

70. Naked pair {36} found at r79c8

71. Naked Single 4 found at r8c8

72. 45 Rule on c6789 - innies r3c6 minus outies r9c5 equals 1
72a. Found a hidden cage innie/outie cells (r3c6)-(r9c5)=1

73. Limited placement of candidates in cage 16(4) n8
73a. Removed 3 from r8c5

74. Hidden single 3 found at r8c2 in r8

75. Naked Single 5 found at r9c2
75a. Cage sum in cage 18(3) n78 - removed 9 from r8c4

76. Naked Single 5 found at r8c4

77. Naked Single 9 found at r9c4

78. Naked pair {28} found at r79c1

79. Naked Single 9 found at r8c1

80. Naked pair {28} found at r9c17

81. Naked Single 6 found at r9c6
81a. Cage sum in cage 30(5) n69 - removed 3 from r7c8

82. Naked Single 3 found at r9c8

83. Naked Single 6 found at r7c8
83a. Cage sum in cage 14(3) n7 - removed 1 from r8c3

84. Naked Single 6 found at r8c3

85. Naked Single 1 found at r7c3

86. Naked pair {28} found at r8c67

87. 45 Rule on r89 - innies r9c1 r8c5 total 9
87a. Found a hidden cage innie/outie cells (r9c1 r8c5) = 9

88. 45 Rule on c6789 - innies r38c6 total 10
88a. Found a hidden cage cage h10(2) n28

89. 45 Rule on r89 - outies r7c1 minus innies r8c5 equals 1
89a. Found a hidden cage innie/outie cells (r7c1)-(r8c5)=1

90. 45 Rule on r89 - outies r7c145 total 13
90a. Found a hidden cage cage h13(3) n78

91. 45 Rule on c1234 - innies r37c4 minus outies r1c5 equals 1
91a. Found a hidden cage innie/outie cells (r37c4)-(r1c5)=1

92. 45 Rule on r89 - outies r7c45 minus innies r9c1 equals 3
92a. Found a hidden cage innie/outie cells (r7c45)-(r9c1)=3

93. 45 Rule on r9 - innies r9c1579 total 18
93a. Found a hidden cage cage h18(4) n789

94. 45 Rule on c1234 - innies r1237c4 total 16
94a. Found a hidden cage cage h16(4) n28

95. 45 Rule on r12 - outies r3c19 minus innies r2c57 equals 2
95a. Removed candidate 6 from r2c5
95b. Removed candidate 6 from r3c1

96. Dependent Cage Sums in cage 10(2) n9 & cage 15(3) n8 with 2 at r8c7 or r8c6
96a. Forced pair {78} at r9c7 & r9c5
96b. Removed combinations {1278} from cage h18(4) n789

If I press F8 for a hint at this point nothing happens. I'm using the default scoring options. If I try to take another step I get this:
** Trying to set invalid zero candidate at r9c1

My human approach to the killer at this point would be this:
97. 3 in r1c4 forces 8 in r1c5 -> problem placing candidates in r1c39 -> no 3 in r1c4

I did this step for SSolver. Now it started working again.
protocol (continued):
97. Removed candidate 3 from r1c4 (This step was manually added!)

98. Hidden single 3 found at r1c9 in r1

99. Naked pair {28} found at r2c39

100. Limited placement of candidates in cage 15(3) n2
100a. Removed 7 from r1c4
100b. Removed 4 from r2c4

Now I have the same problem as before: F8 give me nothing, taking a step gives me this:
** Trying to set invalid zero candidate at r9c1

My human approach is a short chain:
101. 7 in r1c1 -> r12c8 = [17], r12c6 = [91], r12c2 = [49], r1c45 = [26] -> problem, can't place 7 in r2c4 -> no 7 in r1c1

The rest could be done by SSolver.
protocol (final steps):
101. Removed candidate 7 from r1c1=6 (This step was manually added!)

102. Naked Single 8 found at r1c5
102a. Cage sum in cage 10(2) n1 - removed 2 from r2c3
102b. Cage sum in cage 15(3) n2 - removed 2 from r1c4 - removed 7 from r2c4
102c. Cage sum in cage h10(2) n28 - removed 2 from r8c6
102d. Combinations {267} no longer valid in cage 15(3) n2
102e. Combinations {3458} no longer valid in cage 20(4) n2
102f. Combinations {1348} no longer valid in cage 16(4) n8
102g. Cage sum in innie/outie cells (r3c6)-(r9c5)=1 - removed 7 from r9c5
102h. Cage sum in innie/outie cells (r37c4)-(r1c5)=1 - removed 4 from r3c4 - removed 3 from r7c4

103. Naked Single 2 found at r1c3

104. Naked Single 4 found at r1c4
104a. Cage sum in cage 23(5) n14 - removed 9 from r2c2

105. Naked Single 9 found at r1c2
105a. Cage sum in cage 15(3) n23 - removed 1 from r2c6

106. Naked Single 9 found at r2c6

107. Naked Single 1 found at r1c6
107a. Cage sum in cage 8(2) n3 - removed 7 from r2c8

108. Naked Singles found at: r12c8

109. Naked Single 4 found at r2c2
109a. Cage sum in cage 19(3) n3 - removed 6 from r3c7

110. Naked Singles found at: r23c7

111. Naked Single 8 found at r2c3
111a. Cage sum in cage 13(3) n3 - removed 2 from r3c9

112. Naked Singles found at: r3c69 r2c9

113. Naked Single 3 found at r2c4

114. Naked Single 3 found at r7c5
114a. Cage sum in cage 16(4) n8 - removed 1 from r8c5
114b. Cage sum in cage h13(3) n78 - removed 2 from r7c1
114c. Cage sum in innie/outie cells (r7c45)-(r9c1)=3 - removed 8 from r9c1

115. Naked Singles found at: r7c14

116. Naked Single 5 found at r2c5
116a. Cage sum in cage 18(3) n1 - removed 7 from r3c1

117. Naked Singles found at: r3c145 r2c1

118. Naked Single 7 found at r8c5
118a. Cage sum in cage 13(3) n9 - removed 1 from r9c9

119. Naked Singles found at: r9c59 r8c9
119a. Cage sum in cage h18(4) n789 - removed 2 from r9c7

120. Naked Single 2 found at r9c1

121. Naked Single 8 found at r8c6

122. Naked Singles found at: r89c7

Puzzle Completed

I hope this information helps to to solve this mystery.

Cheers,
Nasenbaer


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:10 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:29 am
Posts: 302
Location: Sydney, Australia
Nasenbaer wrote:
After solving it on my own to confirm that it is possible to do it without T&E I started stepping through it using SSolver. Up to this point:
Code:
.-------------------------------.-------------------------------.-------------------------------.
| 67        49        28        | 2347      68        19        | 5         17        238       |
| 567       49        28        | 2347      35        19        | 46        17        238       |
| 57        1         3         | 47        56        28        | 46        9         28        |
:-------------------------------+-------------------------------+-------------------------------:
| 3         6         7         | 8         9         5         | 1         2         4         |
| 4         8         9         | 1         2         3         | 7         5         6         |
| 1         2         5         | 6         4         7         | 3         8         9         |
:-------------------------------+-------------------------------+-------------------------------:
| 28        7         1         | 23        38        4         | 9         6         5         |
| 9         3         6         | 5         17        28        | 28        4         17        |
| 28        5         4         | 9         17        6         | 28        3         17        |
'-------------------------------.-------------------------------.-------------------------------'

Must be a bug from SudokuSolver which is exposed by your technique priority. For example, if the technique "XY-Wing" is available, then r13c15 => r1c5<>6 solves it immediately. :ugeek:

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:47 am 
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udosuk wrote:
Must be a bug from SudokuSolver which is exposed by your technique priority. For example, if the technique "XY-Wing" is available, then r13c15 => r1c5<>6 solves it immediately. :ugeek:

Well, as I said before, I'm using standard solver options. How can I enable XY-Wing? Or change the priority? Every option is checked. And the error message definitly points to a bug. BTW, right now I have only limited internet access and no SSolver. I can have a better look at it on Friday when I'm back home.

Cheers,
Nasenbaer


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