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Apprentice/Master vs. Superior/Superior+
http://www.rcbroughton.co.uk/sudoku/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=225		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  tarek [ Fri Aug 08, 2008 4:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Apprentice/Master vs. Superior/Superior+
I've just noticed some of the categories & rating for puzzles.

I am bringing this subject forward for discussion.

I would hope that x-wing techniques (all unfinned varieties) to be downgraded to the apprentice level.

if a technique heirarchy has the following:
1.singles
2.intersections
3.doubles
4.triples
5.x-wing
6.quads

then any registered technique in 4,5,6 would gurantee an apprentice level puzzle

The popular Superior puzzle of the Sunday Times ranked x-wings lower than quads which I still agree with.

So either dwongrade x-wings or downgrade x-wings & upgrade quads

tarek
Author:  Børge [ Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Apprentice/Master vs. Superior/Superior+
tarek wrote:
I've just noticed some of the categories & rating for puzzles.
I assume that you are referring to the thread Børges's Corner and this post in particular? Your post is probably also a result of my PM asking if you are willing to post Regular Puzzles. (Today or tomorrow I will send you another PM regarding this).

My rating and difficulty levels are just something I made up, so that other people will have an idea of the solving techniques required for a given puzzle. My goal is that Apprentice should be similar to Ruud's Tough rating. My impression is that Ruud considered X-Wing a Very Hard technique. Personally I think that it is quite difficult to spot an X-Wing in a 10 grid Clueless puzzle.

If you would like to introduce different difficulties, please feel free to do so and describe them in "tarek's corner".

My personal advice is to stick with the current difficulty levels and post puzzles requiring X-Wing(s) as additional Master level puzzles, i.e. in addition to an Apprentice and a possible Novice level puzzle. If the puzzles have different solutions, in contrast to mine, I consider that an extra bonus.

Posting puzzles requiring X-Wing(s) as Master also "frees" you from the Intersections limit for Apprentice puzzles. From the feedback I have gotten to my puzzles, most of the people here do not want too difficult puzzles or Apprentice puzzles taking more than one hour to solve. My personal experience is that the number of Intersections greatly influences the time it takes to solve a puzzle, even if it requires only basic techniques for solving (N/H-Singles, Intersections and N/H-Subsets).

If you are able to make overlapping puzzles requiring only X-Wings in addition to N/H-Singles, Intersections and N/H-Subsets, I am very impressed. Personally I have a hard time making such puzzles, and I believe that this is also the experience that Jean-Christophe has made. Some people here will be very happy for (Samurai) puzzles requiring only X-Wings in addition to N/H-Singles, Intersections and N/H-Subsets.
Author:  enxio27 [ Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Apprentice/Master vs. Superior/Superior+
This is why I prefer a numerical rating system such as Sudocue's. Although one could argue that the technique order and scoring can be customized, at least it gives an objective basis for comparing puzzles from various sources.

Unfortunately, I have found that Sudocue occasionally declares a valid puzzle to be invalid, and of course, the rating function is no use at all for anything other than standard 9x9 puzzles.
Author:  tarek [ Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Apprentice/Master vs. Superior/Superior+
I do agree that A huge number of intersections is tedious & should therfore increase the difficulty. The Apprentice level seems to have Quads. We can start a debate about which are more difficult to spot: X-wings vs. Quads. I will, however, submit to a general agreement.

So what if we keep the intersections limit for APPRENTICE, could we downgrade X-wing to be included. Will this affect any puzzle already posted ?

tarek
Author:  Børge [ Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Apprentice/Master vs. Superior/Superior+
tarek wrote:
The Apprentice level seems to have Quads.
Correct!
The Apprentice level includes any N/H-Subset!

tarek wrote:
We can start a debate about which are more difficult to spot: X-wings vs. Quads. I will, however, submit to a general agreement.
Fine with me.

tarek wrote:
So what if we keep the intersections limit for APPRENTICE, could we downgrade X-wing to be included.
No problemo.
If an Apprentice level puzzle requires X-Wing, please state the rating based on required solving techniques as Very Hard:

Rating based on required solving techniques:  Very Hard

The number of intersections is NOT an absolute. I sometimes deviate a bit from it, to get more interesting puzzles.

tarek wrote:
Will this affect any puzzle already posted ?
Not to my knowledge.
Author:  enxio27 [ Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Apprentice/Master vs. Superior/Superior+
tarek wrote:
We can start a debate about which are more difficult to spot: X-wings vs. Quads.

Personally, I find X-wings and naked quads about the same, with hidden quads somewhat harder. I generally don't find either X-wings or quads until the second pass through a puzzle anyway.

Quote:
So what if we keep the intersections limit for APPRENTICE, could we downgrade X-wing to be included.

To my way of thinking, it's just so much semantics, so it really doesn't matter to me either way.
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